Exercise #12: Different points of view

[Creole Ned]

Exercise #12:

Write a scene from two different points of view. You may want to have two characters engaged in a dispute but it isn't required. Write the scene from the POV of one character, then write the same scene from the POV of another character.

Due Monday, March 2.

Submissions:

Mall Drama (http://rimbosity.com/img/TwoPerspectives.pdf) (Rimbo)
Bigger than a Corona (http://creolened.com/fiction/malakand.pdf) (El Guapo)
A Walk in the Park (http://creolened.com/fiction/walk_in_the_park.pdf) (Arioch)
Your Fault (http://creolened.com/fiction/your_fault.pdf) (Creole Ned)

[Rimbo]

Mall Drama (http://rimbosity.com/img/TwoPerspectives.pdf)

Hope y'all enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it.

[Creole Ned]

And a submission from El Guapo: Bigger than a Corona (http://creolened.com/fiction/malakand.pdf)

[russellmz]

Mall Drama (http://rimbosity.com/img/TwoPerspectives.pdf)

Hope y'all enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it.

i laughed out loud at the captain's second name but i totally got the person of the second perspective wrong until the uniform sabotage part.

the second to last sentence seems a bit stereotypical. although i thought the same thing when the kid took those barbies.

overall i really enjoyed it, my favorite part was the kid's perspective.

[Rimbo]

i laughed out loud at the captain's second name but i totally got the person of the second perspective wrong until the uniform sabotage part.

Well, there's plenty of suggestions (e.g. 2 guards) earlier than that who the second person is. But I was trying to set up the second perspective as a surprise, so I might have to hit the reader with a bigger hammer. :)

the second to last sentence seems a bit stereotypical. although i thought the same thing when the kid took those barbies.

You stereotype, you. :)

Actually the whole "Bonus" part is a lousy stereotype based on an old joke. That's why it's only thrown in as a bonus.

overall i really enjoyed it, my favorite part was the kid's perspective.

Thanks!

[Rimbo]

And a submission from El Guapo: Bigger than a Corona (http://creolened.com/fiction/malakand.pdf)

Ahh, the British Empire.

It was a good one, El Guapo. One thing I noticed was that I felt sympathy for the first POV, but not as much for the second. In fact, in a sense, there was really only one POV given -- the first character's -- and that the second character's POV only served to highlight the bias of the first. I think if that's your goal, you might want to consider switching the order. By doing so, you can let the reader come to the enlisted man's conclusions on his own by reading the officer's story. Then, the reader will be smiling and nodding along with the enlisted man as he tells his version of the scene.

Maybe. :)

It's almost comical how the officer is more concerned with the condition of his coat than his own health. :)

[Creole Ned]

Exercise #13 will be posted tomorrow. I'll have my submission for #12 and feedback later today (no, seriously!)

[Arioch]

Rimbo: Very funny stuff, and the first time that I actually laughed out loud in front of the monitor in quite a long time. The difference between the quite normal, generic first view and the far out second really made the piece, with the bonus being the cream of the crop, with a perfect last line. The middle part read quite like a Calvin (of "& Hobbes" fame) daydream, which is nothing but praise from someone with complete leatherbound set two meters behind them.

ElGuapo: Another very funny story (the second part, at least), and also one where the juxtaposition of the perspectives really shines. I always enjoy soldier stories, and there is not much criticism I could offer. I don't get the corona, though, even after a wikipedia search: the beer? the cigar? the sun phenomenon? the snails?

[Creole Ned]

Arioch's entry, A Walk in the Park (http://creolened.com/fiction/walk_in_the_park.pdf).

And yes, I'm late again. :P

[Rimbo]

Thanks, Arioch.

I'm glad y'all enjoyed the story. Obviously the gag is very derivative; the second POV really is Spaceman Spiff with the name changed (as you noticed), and the third (Bonus!) POV is right off of a pretty common "Difference between men and women" email forward. And those two POVs wrote themselves.

Where I really had to work was in the first character's POV, because in order to get the laugh with the second POV, I felt I had to really somehow draw the reader into the first person's story and make it as real as possible. (The 2nd and 3rd perspectives were only going to work if the first one did.) One thing I should've done was that I should've kept my use of dialogue consistent -- that is to say, avoided it entirely. But that's tough for me to do; I love writing dialogue.

[Creole Ned]

Here's mine. I didn't even proof-read it. Not really happy with it, so will be interested in the feedback.

Your Fault (http://creolened.com/fiction/your_fault.pdf)

[Rimbo]

Well, I'll say this. You and Arioch are technically vastly superior writers to me. I never worry that I'm going to stumble across something confusing or hard to get with either of your stories.

One thing you did very well is that you seemed to get the different characters down very well; you were sympathetic to them. And the truck driver's beginning really began the sketch of someone believable and worth reading more about.

As for the story... What were you going for here, Ned? In the case where you're telling the same scene from different points of view, the second should really add something to reward the reader for the patience to see the same thing twice. The first point of view could raise questions that get answered by the second. Or vice versa; the story looks one way at the beginning, but after reading the second story we doubt what we took for granted in the first, with the two stories bringing up some truly significant disagreements -- like if the gal had said that the guy was driving a station wagon instead of a pickup, and was drinking coffee. Or, it can simply be the punchline to an old joke.

As it stands right now, if I were your editor, I'd just hack off the second POV as unnecessary and leave it like that.

[Rimbo]

Oh, and Arioch? I think your story would work a lot better if the first character didn't understand the word his son said -- that it sounded like gobbledygook, rather than mistook it for something else. Doing it the latter way seemed too forced to me.

I had to look up what that word meant myself.

[Arioch]

The idea was that he was so sure unconsciously what Steve would say, that he didn't really listen. Wouldn't he just ask if he just misunderstood him? But all in all, I'm not so happy with the result either.

@Ned: That read to me like they are giving their witness report to the police, each one changing the facts a little to make the other one look more guilty. But to me as a reader it's a little unsatisfactory that there is no way to know what really happened. OTOH it could maybe be used as a personality test, to see whom the reader believes more. So... whom do you believe, Ned?

[Rimbo]

Yeah, Arioch got the same impression I did about Ned's story, although I actually don't mind a story where it's about "which story do you believe," but to me it doesn't go far enough in that direction for it to work that way.

Arioch:

Yeah, I guessed that, but through the beginning of the story it looked to me more like his suspicions of his son's sexuality were just part of a mixed bag of not understanding the son. He needs to be on the verge of concluding (or already concluding) that his son is gay before his son says a word, and I don't think he's quite built himself up to that point, yet; and even if he had, I don't think he was ready to accept it.

One of the last things he thinks he sees is the young man checking out the girl, which gives him hope! At that point, the father should be thinking that he's judging the girl's fashion or her hairstyle or some other stereotypical gay behavior, not checking her out; he should be on the verge of coming to that conclusion, and filtering what he sees to produce that result.

Now if it was a guy behind the counter that he sees his son make eye contact with, that change alone might be enough to sell the story.

[Creole Ned]

I pretty much phoned in #12 just to get it over with. I didn't enjoy writing it at all and several times as I wrote it last night I took breaks to do something else...anything else. What was I trying to say? Nothing, really. There was an accident and the two people have different takes on it. That's about it. The construction worker's view is less accurate because he's hit his head and isn't "all there". He's also rather sexist. The woman was originally unsympathetic, too, but I couldn't bring myself to finish the scene with two essentially unlikeable characters.

I spent a good amount of time mulling over possible scenarios and I knew mechanically what I wanted to do, to have each POV offer something unique and to say something greater about the situation at hand. I started and stopped on several concepts and finally went with the truck driver because I "found" his character fairly easily. I agree that this was a pretty much unsatisfying exercise. Oh well. I blame the guy who suggested it. :P

[Rimbo]

Well, for what it's worth, you DID do a good job of presenting the different points of view and trying to be sympathetic to two essentially unlikeable characters.

My recommendation for the future is: Make all your characters likable in the future. (Seriously. They're more fun to read, anyway.)

[Creole Ned]

A villain can be a lot of fun to write, too. :)

But I admit I am a big sucker for buddy stories, having a couple of likable characters bouncing off each other and then throwing crap at them to see what they do. That's practically the unspoken theme to half the stuff I write.

I'll post feedback on the other submissions shortly.

[Rimbo]

Oh yes... a great villain is always fun. See also: Darth Vader and the witch Maleficent. :)

[Creole Ned]

Feedback (I haven’t read any of the other feedback yet):

Rimbo:
Much better monster descriptions in "Mall Drama". ;)

As I was finishing the scene from Joey's perspective, I was thinking I would be left without getting into the husband's head but you cheated with the third POV and took care of that. In this case, the cheat worked!

You did a really nice job of interpreting the exercise here. Each perspective is distinct and memorable. Paula is a neurotic basketcase and her internal back and forth works well for the most part (a bit more on that further down). The kid's Calvin-esque fantasy is great. You did a terrific job of setting up a scenario that to any observer looks like a kid nicking stuff from a store but in his own mind is just a normal part of the elaborate fantasy play he's devised, right down to being caught with the "prisoners". The vocabulary Joey uses seems a bit too sophisticated for someone I picture being fairly young but I'll grant you the poetic license.

The bit with the father at the end neatly undercuts Julia's paranoia. In just a few short sentences he casually sums up everything, while betraying the true object of his affection: the Celtics.

There were a few things with Julia's POV that felt a bit clunky. The transition to her worrying about her age felt abrupt and didn't flow as well as it might have.

"It brings a scowl to my face that I can feel forming wrinkles even stronger."
reads awkwardly. Maybe try something like:

It brings a scowl to my face and I feel my wrinkles growing even deeper.

Still not great but hopefully you get what I mean.

Also, you wrote "Maybe that’s what he sees in that little tart. Maybe it’s because she’s a working girl, like him." Maybe there's more to Joe that we don't know about, but here you seem to be calling him a working girl. ;)

Overall, very much enjoyed this. Eight thumbs up!

El Guapo:
The dry wit and old British sense of superiority are the strengths of this.

I especially like the second paragraph from the first POV, with the soldier’s descriptions of the foreign land and its people. His bitterness and resentment come across vividly. Minor nitpick: you use the phrase “always traveling the world on the Queen’s dime” but I don’t believe the British have ever had a dime as part of their currency.

Lt. Cassells does contrast somewhat with the soldier in that his POV is more refined and his wit that much drier; he also sees the promise of value in Winston that the soldier does not. There are a few phrasings here that felt awkward. “I tried, but of course any exertion resulted in the labor pains of my bullet hole trying to give birth to my shredded organs” is colorful but the birth analogy seems off. “As we left a slick of my blood over the rocks to cleaned up later” seems to be missing the word “be” but even if added, I’m not sure why anyone would clean up the blood on a hill from a battle. It was an odd image and I found it a bit jarring.

There could have been more contrasts between the two points of view and in that respect I think you fell into the same trap as me. Overall, not a bad piece and if you wrote it in an hour as you claimed on Qt3, not bad at all.

Arioch:
As I write this, I’m still not sure whether or not I like the “twist” of the boy being totally color blind. As I was reading the first part from the father’s perspective, all the descriptions of the weather and scenery felt a bit like a contrivance for the story and even moreso when his character becomes more fully revealed. I guess I didn’t buy into the nature-loving part as much as I might have. But I do see how it works in the context of the scene as a complication in the developing relationship between the two.

However, onto the good! You differentiate the two characters nicely and I like the way each remains a cipher to the other, creating a wall that neither can seem to break through. The father’s attempts are sincere while the boy is not necessarily sabotaging his attempts but is largely indifferent to them. I was a bit puzzled that the boy wouldn’t understand the “OK” sign. Was there something specific you had in mind with that?

The internal dialogue for each character is well-done and natural – you get into their heads convincingly and the story did give me a certain yearning for summer and ice cream, so there is that, too. ;)

I’ll probably go back and re-read this a few more times. I feel like there’s more I want to say but I’m not sure exactly what it is.

Me:
I already dissed my submission. See above. :P

[Rimbo]

Thanks, CN. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Agreed on both sentences you pointed out; I cringed when I re-read the "wrinkles" sentence a few days ago; I didn't quite communicate what I meant there. I like your rewrite of it very well. As for "working girl," you're right... maybe "working stiff" is a better fit. And "working girl" kinda connotes "prostitute" which, although appropriate for Paula's POV, doesn't convey what she's really thinking. (Although perhaps it's a Freudian Slip.)

One thing I noticed about the story I wrote AFTER I wrote it, which nobody seems to have mentioned, is how completely isolated each of these people are and how fantastical the worlds they exist in are. Obviously the fantastic world Calvin^H^H^H^H^H^H Joey is in is the most extreme, but Paula's and Joe's are no less divergent from reality. Notice that other than the identification of a pair of stores by both Paula and Joey, NOTHING of the actual mall is described -- whether it's a multi-level megaplex, single-story outdoor center, or even an arcade in a city. That's because none of the people in this story are paying attention to anything but what's in their own heads.

They deserve each other. :)

[Arioch]

I really need to break out of the Shyamalan school of writing, I know. I really should try to start a story without knowing the ending - maybe then I can lay off the twists.

Regarding the OK sign (and I really had to look for what you mean), that's an actual thing we as kids did, namely forming a circle with your fingers, somewhere below eye level, and when you can get someone else to look into it, you get to punch him in the shoulder. But if he can jam his index finger into the hole beofre that, he may punch you ten times. Also, if you don't wipe the shoulder with your hand after the punch(es), the other may retaliate. It's completely random, childish, violent, and immature, and I felt it was exactly the thing William may try to communicate with his son. I really don't know where it comes from, if it has a name, or if it's a local phenomenon. All I know is that there really are grown men still doing that shit for giggles sometimes.

[Creole Ned]

Huh, interesting. I can definitely say it was never something I saw growing up. Probably for the best, since I never had the fastest reflexes. :P

And it seems we come at stories from completely opposite directions. I almost never know how a story will end when I sit down to write it (though I sometimes have a good idea). There's nothing wrong with your approach, really. I'd probably have fewer unfinished stories if I plotted them out fully in advance.

For this particular story, the twist wasn't the problem so much but that the work to support it -- namely making the father a nature buff -- didn't really fit together smoothly for me because it seemed in contrast to the rest of his character. In a longer piece it could probably be worked in better.

Could also just be me being weird about it, too. :)

[Arioch]

I probably could have worked it better if I knew ANYTHING about plants, flowers or greenery. This is a disadvantage of being a gaming nerd shut-in.

[Creole Ned]

You just need to play more nature games, duh.