Let's face reality...

[Andri]

We don't have much of a clue as to where the WoW martians are going from here. That's why I created a poll with what I see as our options. All of this is stressing me out quite a bit and distracts me from work. So I need this resolved. :bg:

(Also bear with me if I am screwing up the poll somehow; I have never done anything like this before, and it appears that you cannot enter the poll options before creating the thread.)

Before you vote, I think you should all consider what you are playing WoW for, and for how long you think you will stay committed to it. We all always claim that we play "for fun", but it seems that we have very different definitions of what that means. Does it mean the acquisition of uber-gear? Kicking hordie pants? Yacking away with friends on vent while pretending to do something meaningwhile like raiding a dungeon? Participating in a fascinating social experiment? We all should answer this for ourselves before we determine which option is best for us.

Now to the four options:

1) This is the default. It is where we are now; and the benefits are that we can all duck easily in and out of the game, always knowing there will be some friends out there to play with. No pressure to keep up with raid schedules, no ranks, no rules, nobody getting kicked out of the guild. Will we ever run ZG or MC that way? Nope.

2) I spoke with the GM of Dvastations, and they would take us in anytime we want. They'd make at least one of us an officer; no questions asked. The downside is that we might face all the same issues again that we faced with HW, namely, that there may be rules we don't like, that we don't know the people (and there would be a LOT to get acquainted with - they have about 180 active lvl 60 players), and we will initially have very low standing in the pecking order. This would not be a nice and cozy place as we are used to now.

3) We could add to our numbers by recruiting other people. But who is going to make that effort? And how are we going to run this guild? The Martian Cartel is much more than just the WoW crowd; which means that neither our vent server nor our website can be used for our WoW guild. And let's face it: Do we really and actually LIKE strangers? I know a lot of people thanks to the power of being a priest and a RL female, but I will NOT convince anyone to join us if I have to expect comments like "Who's this dumbnut, and why did you ever like him or dare to burden us with him?"

4) Believe it or not, this is actually my favorite option for the sole and utterly selfish reason that I love you guys AND the Kingdom guys to death. (Most of them anyway; even Billz.) I miss them terribly and would therefore love to have us all back on one vent and guild channel. The harsh reality is that we would not get Kaymus to make any commitment to changing her ways - for the same reason we were not willing to accept that Pogo has to change his. We would just have to trust each other that we all learned our lessons and will behave better in the future. I think that it is still possible to broker a deal that allows for all of us to reunite without anyone losing face. But we'd have to do it soon. And yes, there would still be some rules we don't particularly like.

[Tai]

I refuse to face reality, but I'm not anywhere near as interested in the end game as most of you :)

[Andri]

As a bloody n00b to MMORPGs, this has been a hell of a social experience for me, and I would like to share some of the lessons I learned in the months since I started playing. Most of them were probably obvious to all of you; they were not so for me. :(

1) Wherever people get together there will be politics at work. Nobody can "stay out of it"; we can only be smarter playing at them than others. Sometimes keeping one's mouth shut is smarter.

2) Nobody gives a crap what your RL status is. In the game, your status stands and falls with your playing skill and how much you contribute to the group.

3) Being intelligent, mature, knowledgeable, and having natural authority advances you faster in any guild. But it does not mean that you can waltz in there and will be respected right away.

4) All guilds are more or less dictatorial in nature, and there will always be GM decisions that you have to swallow, even if they are morally or logically flawed. There is no supreme court in front of which you can plead for justice.

And with that, I am about ready to quit my job and apply for a PhD program in communications with the social interactions within MMORPGs as my field of research. :bg:

[jackrabbit]

I prefer the smallness of thr group for the time being. If I want to run ZG or MC, I am fairly sure I can get in with Kingdom as they tend to come up short when they run large instances and then say "Okay, check your friends lists for any 60s. We need 'x' more people."

If they won't have me because of Kaymus and KB's problem with Pogo, then I'll find someone else. Worst case scenario is that I miss out on some end-game gear. In the immortal words of Armen Levenstein of Layola University, "Big whoop."

There are plenty of small guilds that are in the same boat as we are - not big enough to run end-game stuff alone. I'm willing to take my chances rather than commit myself to a set of rules that seem explicitly designed to suck the fun from the game like a Philipino hooker with an hourly quota.

Since I prefer to stick with the group while I'm playing, if it means my wishes are in conflict with the group's, I'll acquiesce.

[Andri]

I refuse to face reality, but I'm not anywhere near as interested in the end game as most of you :)

You have the option of abstaining from the poll as does everybody else. :)

[Paladin]

I vote for the default, current situation. I'm playing WoW to play with you guys. Period. I gave it up when the bulk of people opted to join HW. I'm not in it for the end game instances, and even if I was, I'd never run them enough to raise my guild standing enough to get any of the set loot. I'm very happy with the more attainable 5-15 person instances.

I wouldn't mind if we affiliated with another guild or guilds, so the people who want to run the 20 and 40 man instances can do so and gain standing, but that would require a VERY receptive guild to hook up with. From what I've seen, most guilds want you to be a member of their guild in order to have any loot standing. Maybe there are some big ones who will take affiliate groups to fill in the gaps, or maybe there are some small 5-10 person guilds we can hook up with who are groups of friends like us who play for fun and are in the same quandry.

I'm not opposed to inviting other people to join us, but I think if we do, we need to be sure they are going to be "Martian Cartel" material. That means they play predominately for fun and don't want to be locked into loot ranking systems that would require an actuary to make (or use). That also means they be at least semi-active forum posters...if we only ever see them in-game, there's a problem. And lastly, if at all possible, they should be multi-game gamers, not just WoW players. We could do more with Smackdowns and game nights if the people we recruit play other stuff besides just WoW, plus if all they play is WoW, they are more likely to be "n00bs" or power gamers, neither of which would be ideal additions.

So, anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'd rather see us stay as we are and maybe bring in some new individuals (even other disenchanted HW/Kingdom members). I don't want to see us getting too large or become too focused on running the 40-man content. I mean, I'd love to see it sometime, but running it at every opportunity like the big guilds has zero appeal to me.

[Andri]

If I want to run ZG or MC, I am fairly sure I can get in with Kingdom as they tend to come up short when they run large instances and then say "Okay, check your friends lists for any 60s. We need 'x' more people."

Unless their merger with War Theory goes terribly wrong and a considerable number of them quits the guild, I doubt that they have any more need of us. Moreover, since it was us quitting them, I doubt that they would ask us for help. They'll have to assume that we are done with them, especially since none of us could post a good bye message to the contrary on their site. If they took us back in, it would not be based on need - it would be that most of them actually liked us a whole lot too and are sad taht we are gone.

[Harka]

I thought Tai canceled his account and refused to come back, even for poptarts

[Tai]

I thought Tai canceled his account and refused to come back, even for poptarts

Ah, yes. well. They've been working on me in irc and vent the last couple of days and nights. I've updated my client to 1.8. I will probably reactivate within the next few days. You ready to do some level 49/50 stuff? :thumbup:

[pogozorro]

Don't base decision off me. Do whatever the hell it is you want to do. If push came to shove, I can play with my wife and be happy (as I should well be ;)), and what considerations may have to be taken due to my rather outspoken and verbose nature do not necessarily synergistically add to the melange of choices people must confront.

In all honesty, I honestly don't think I would go back to Kingdom unless one of us got a co-GM position. As is, the HW people are severely outnumbered by WT people, and a majority of them (at least the ones in raids) have the mental capacity of a lima bean. Combine this with the admitted flawed perceptions of Kaymus holding Kruegerbeard's decisions in check, and everything is just weird there.

I'd be fine staying as is, but in all honesty, half the people who came back will get bored and wander off again, so this is another dead-end.

Devastations...I don't know them and it would take a hell of a lot to join them. A lot.

As for taking in others, it isn't hard to do so, we just have the issue of selectivity versus critical mass. We cannot willy-nilly take people in, nor can we expect to retain people unless we satisfy their needs.

[jackrabbit]

yeah. I'm likely one of the "wander off" types. I'm just at a loss for anything else to play at the moment. I had intended to wait until the expansion came out to re-subscribe.

I still enjoy the game, but there's only so many times you can do the same quests with different characters.

I basically returned cause I missed the people.

[Harka]

Tai, Let me know if/when you reup and Harka will hang with ya, he is 48 still.

Yell at me here or on Scarlet Crusade.

[Andri]

In all honesty, I honestly don't think I would go back to Kingdom unless one of us got a co-GM position.

I strongly doubt that they would agree with that. Aside from that, who would we nominate for that co-GM position? I certainly don't have any interest in it. I prefer to pull the strings from the background disguised as the benevolent guild grandma. :bg:

I'd be fine staying as is, but in all honesty, half the people who came back will get bored and wander off again, so this is another dead-end.

I agree. If they had stayed, we would likely never have entertained a merger with HW in the first place. That's the ironic part about it. I guess, I am more with BoX and Nord in that I do not wish to play any other game but WoW at the moment. Once this one runs out of steam and no longer provides entertainment, I might pick up something else, but I don't see that happening any time soon. And I must say, while you returners took your WoW breaks, I have run scholo, DM and Strat so many times that I don't have to be loot whore to yearn for something like ZG, MC, and Onyxia. I just want to do these instances because they are new and challenging to me. I also would not underestimate the pleasure you can get out of having successfully organized 40 people to accomplish something very difficult. The human factors involved in raiding are, at least for me, their own source of challenge and entertainment.

Devastations...I don't know them and it would take a hell of a lot to join them. A lot.

I figured that we were not ready for something of that magnitude, and that is what I told their GM yesterday. I have to say, though, that that is the only group of people I have encountered so far who I know to be playing other games besides WoW. (I think many of them are competitive CS players.)

As for taking in others, it isn't hard to do so, we just have the issue of selectivity versus critical mass. We cannot willy-nilly take people in, nor can we expect to retain people unless we satisfy their needs.

I will leave this up to you then. I know half the Arthas server by now, but I have no clue how to find and successfully pre-screen people among them who meet our standards for becoming proper martians (i.e. members of the larger gaming group rather than just the WoW guild). I also seem to have much lower standards than most of you when it comes to associating with people (hey, I even like Billz!), so I'll likely be fine and friendly with whomever you recruit.

[LogRoller]

I'd like to do more than run the same instances over and over. I don't want to get all purples or anything, but it would be nice to see the endgame content.

It's now looking like Kingdom was our best shot at participating at that level.

The other thing is that I still want to play with you guys. I don't want to disappear into a guild. It's likely that my real life will interfere severely with my ability to be a consistent hardcore member. I'm pretty much flexible.

I've been talking with Andri at work a lot about this, and she's pretty frustrated, as am I really. My solution was to ramp up and get to a level of membership that we control where we can run ZG, so we can still stay together while mastering new content. Commensurate with that would also be a misson statement that defines our guild. I think it's possible, but there would be a lot of other stuff that needs to happen before that would work.

Andri wants to try and make things work with Kingdom. She was apparently on the verge of getting things smoothed over when I butted in, and I think she's frustrated by that, because to her there are two groups of people for whom she is fond, and they are not getting along at all. It is her assessment that this is a foolish and unnecessary situation.

I know that several of you already voted on the poll, but consider that some of those things are conditional. They are dependent on what you want to accomplish by playing this game. More than one answer can work for you depending on what that is, the rest is mere preference. If we can not find a common ground that satisfies everyone, no matter what happens, just playing WoW together as a small group is not going to work either. Our group is too small, and too co-dependent to sustain the loss of a couple of people.

I suggest outlining, simply and succinctly, why you really play this game. I'll do that myself in a subsequent post, because I have to go feed the baby. :D

[pogozorro]

Inka, nobody is holding you to us, and the same applies to everyone else.

However, you shall reap what you sow with the current leadership. That is my final comment on matters, and I hope you have fun, whichever way you go.

[LogRoller]

So, what do you want out of this, pogo?

[pogozorro]

To play the game. That's about it. I still have a ways to go with my druid, so that at least will tide me over for awhile.

I'd like to do the end-game stuff, but I refuse to kowtow to a garbage-collecter-cum-dictator who cannot discern the difference between offense and carefully constructed sarcastic dissent, especially who admits error yet refuses to backdown due to misplaced pride. (Note, this is not me. I actually admitted I was a bit overly caustic.)

I like the game for what it is, and will be playing it for probably another year at least. End game would be nice, but it is not everything for me.

[Tai]

I was just posting my preference, but I won't go for #4 (which should not influence anybody given my casual gamings habits). Just keeping everyone informed :)

[LogRoller]

To play the game. That's about it. I still have a ways to go with my druid, so that at least will tide me over for awhile.

I'd like to do the end-game stuff, but I refuse to kowtow to a garbage-collecter-cum-dictator who cannot discern the difference between offense and carefully constructed sarcastic dissent, especially who admits error yet refuses to backdown due to misplaced pride. (Note, this is not me. I actually admitted I was a bit overly caustic.)

I like the game for what it is, and will be playing it for probably another year at least. End game would be nice, but it is not everything for me.

If you really just wanted to play the game, why would you care about the specifics of loot distribution tactics?

[pogozorro]

For one, I hate to see people in a position of power abuse said power for their own gain.

Two, similarly, if I am going to play, I am also not going to just give loot away as if I am going through the effort, then I feel that I deserve my own share as it is. My sole motivation is not loot, although I do enjoy seeing the fruits of my labors.

Three, playing off one, I would prefer to not see my friends be taken advantage of and while I may be overzealous at times, I tend to being overprotective of the people close to me whom I know.

[LogRoller]

All of that stuff is fair, but in this case, we seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

I suggest that we actually talk about this on vent, for anyone who is interested. It will probably save a load of time.

[pogozorro]

But, what if the baby looked like...THIS!

http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/1/8_ugly_people.jpg

[LogRoller]

Even that baby has a mommy who loves him. And her name is Inka. :D

[Kermit]

I just want to have fun with friends. Eventually I will be interested in some of the End game stuff, but even then, I'm more interested in doing the runs for the fun of it, than trying to up my l33t toon with purples.

I voted for expanding the MC guild for only one reason. I think it will happen. I'm not saying we should actively recruit every moron we come across, but I think we should concentrate on having fun with those we have, while staying open to letting new people in. Especially dis-enchanted, and dis-enfranchised Hope Within Members (notice I don't call them Kingdom members?)

My opinions shouldn't count as much though for two reasons.
#1. I'm good with whatever. As long as I get to play with fun people.
#2. My main is only in the low 30's. Not that I think people with low-powered toons shouldn't have a say, its just that if people are concerned with purples, I am a LONG way from being able to help.

[jackrabbit]

Calling them "toons" puts a nail in Jesus' hand. :(

[Budly]

Well, where to start...

I very much enjoy playing this game, it holds a high fun factor for me, I enjoy hunting things/items/mobs, I really enjoy when guildies can join me or I can help out a guildie, I enjoy the fact that I play this with my son and I am also enjoying the fact that I have let up a bit on my time commitment to the game, it makes me cherish the time that I do play even more.

Likes about the Martians:
We are small and tight-knit.
We know eachothers strengths and weaknesses
We know eachother well enough to taunt and tease knowing that nobody is serious.
We have a great time on vent.
We can still manage to get instances done.
We have enough 60's that somebody can always be "rushed" or just assisted with a troublesome quest.

Likes about the time with HW:
The fact that there were always a bunch of people on so that at any time an instance run could be formed with all guildies.
Most of the people were cool.
I really like the command of Teirial, and he was fun on vent.
Playing with the likes of BoX again, and hearing him on vent.

Dislikes of the Martians:
We are small and limited with what we can do guild-wise.
We cannot run endgame content.
Because we are family, when one hurts, we all hurt. (That's not really a dislike, just a fact because when we are happy, we are really happy too).

Dislikes of the time with HW:
When it came to endgame, I was just a number.
Not knowing all the bodies therefore not knowing when people were kidding or people were serious when they threw daggers at eachother(some of both).
Having the feeling that a few people questioned my abilities because of my length of time played vs. the gear I came to the guild with.
The amount of competitiveness in doing instance runs. I sometimes felt I had to really work rather than have fun to keep my numbers "respectable" when the damage tables were displayed.
I really had no interest in doing endgame content with them because of the fact that my RL just might interfere( if my pager goes off for a fire call and I have to go right now, I don't think they would tolerate it well) therefore I just didn't want to be put in that situation.
Let's face it, I am just a real casual player and the thought of actually sticking to a schedule to play a game just blows in my book. So apparently, as much as I would love to have some of those purples, the big raids just ain't in my future, period.

What I want to do:
I would love to see us slowly recruit and grow, however, I don't know how well we would retain recruits with our level of gameplay, commitment and goals. I would love to say that we could expand enough to eventually do MC etc, but in reality I just don't see it happening.

As much fun as I had with HW, I just don't really seeing myself fit in with the uberness of Kingdom. To be honest, the only reason I went there is because you guys did, and I was happiest when we ran our own little instance runs. But I will really miss T, I think he truly is a Martian at heart.

[Creole Ned]

Given that I have not participated in any of this, I'm going to throw in my two cents from a perspective that goes beyond WoW.

The group that is now the Martian Cartel started out in January 1999. It consisted of two different sets of people that played Tribes. We merged in May of that year to become QB. We first entered into competitive play at the same time, running matches against other tribes in the OGL.

Eventually, we ended up folding the team and letting people play competitively for other tribes (like TFT) because we simply didn't have the numbers to sustain a full roster.

A lot of us played City of Heroes when it came out last year. We ran full teams and doing a task force (with a minimum number of players required to start) was easy because we had so many bodies. But most ended up quitting. Now if I or others want to run a TF or trial, we need to grab other pub players.

We have had Smackdowns with enough people to strain the server and then the following week not enough to even play.

What I am saying here is that the problems you are having in WoW have always been part of MC. We are a small gaming group. We do bring in new people, we do grow but we are still small and have disparate interests, even if most of us will get caught up in one game for awhile.

After Tribes, I honestly thought we'd never have another group game again, so I was surprised when it happened with CoH. I was less surprised by WoW given the precedence and it looks like most of us are agreeable to the persistent world concept. But we will never, on our own, be more than casual.

My advice? Recruit in WoW or join up with other guilds if you want to do endgame content but reconcile yourself to the fact that the Martians will never be a big hardcore group of gamers. Some of us have been playing together for nearly seven years and believe me, if we were going to evolve, it would have happened by now. :)

[Andri]

Sorry, this will be another long post, and I promise to shut up afterwards. Alternatively, Ned can just decide to ban me (I am even using some caps :eek: ).

Even that baby has a mommy who loves him. And her name is Inka. :D

Eeeeewwww, this picture makes me never want to have any kids!!! And I need to correct you: I am not the mommy, I am the grandma. Literally. I am much more forgiving than any parent, as has become rather obvious by now. In addition, I prefer to let others do the work (like running a guild and moderating boards) while spoiling the little children around me and offering my ear when they want to cry. Then I try to take a gentle approach to conveying to the hard working parents that their children are unhappy, suggesting what they should change rather than demanding it. I admit to not always being successful, and to sometimes falling out of that roll because even my patience has its limits. But overall I have done well enough for myself with that approach.

Loggy put a lot of words in my mouth with his postings, and most of it is accurate. So I'll just add that all of the drama has made me realize and finally admit to myelf that, yes, I am a harcore WoWer, whereas most of you guys are little butterflies who want to come in and out of this game at random times. I have the bad habit of attaching myself to people - can't help it when I spent several hours talking to somebody every night for months without end. That is why I had a very hard time when you all decided to take a break; and that is why I am having a hard time leaving the cooler guys in Kingdom behind. As it is likely that you all will take breaks again; and as I can always talk to you using the Martian Cartel website, I am obviously better off going back to the K&K Monarchy (no matter how rotten it is; grandma will work on that part in her own style). None of this is to say that I regret what I did or do not still agree that Pogo was treated very unfairly. Kaymus is weird, but I dare say she learned something from all of this too. I'll see. I can always leave again if I don't like the way things are in the K&K Monarchy (provided, of course, that they will invite me back in the first place).

There is one other thing that I keep wondering about, though: What do you guys mean when you say you want to SEE endgame content? If you want to see it, just walk into the instance and take a look around. You'll die, of course, if you walk to far in, but you'll be able to say you saw it - what mobs are in there; that they have insane amounts of HP; and that they will be damn hard to take down. But if you mean you want to actually KILL some bosses in there, then you'll have a big problem. You can try to PUG it, sure, but how many times have you actually seen anyone spam LFM Molten Core/Onyxia in IF? Taking down endgame bosses takes a very well organized group with everybody knowing exactly what to do. Moreover, you need to assemble the number of people it takes to do it. We all know how long it can take to assemble a UBRS group. How long do you think it takes to get a PUG for ZG together? I have seen people spam an entire Saturday without success. I see people spam for the big raid quest in EPL all the time but have only once seen a group actually do it - as a little guild entertainment before they all took off to Molten Core.

I have managed to participate in two Molten Core runs as an outsider (both times I was invited via an unsolicited PM because they needed healers). Both runs included multiple outsiders. The first group could not even get to the first boss; the second made it just a little bit beyond. If you want to SEE the endgame content, you can leave it there and quit the game or level another alt. If you want to get those damn bosses down, you have to find a group of 40 people who is willing to stick it out together and learn how to do it. You will be expected to make some commitment to show up on time, stay around, possibly spec your char in a certain way, put up with high repair bills and no loot for a while, and accept that therre are some smart peeps and some dumb ones; some you like, and some you don't. It took me a while to figure this all out (okay BoX, you're a lot smarter than me) and accept it; but anyway, that's where I stand.

[Andri]

Budly, I have to say that that was a very good description of my own HW experience, including your list of the downsides to being with HW/Kingdom. You have a good point in all of them. However, the downsides appear to me mostly issues that could be fixed via communication. I don't think anyone would have begrudged you leaving an instance if your pager goes off - as long as you told them that that is what's going on. I mean, people get disconnected sometimes and quit by force. It's usually not a problem. One or two people can always be replaced; and a rogue probably more easily at that. KB always takes a harsh tone in his Must Reads, but I can't say that I have actually witnessed him being unreasonable over interferences between gaming and RL issues. What his posts said was mostly "please keep me informed". And I dare say that nobody will care too much about your individual damage output as long as the boss gets taken down.

[Budly]

Yeah Inka, I don't necessarily mean literally that is what is happening, it is more or less how I feel or my perception, that is all. To be honest, I was quite suprised to find that you left Kingdom when Pogo got kicked, and having been offline/gone during the whole debacle, when I finally did get on and realized that you had left I figured that whatever happened must have been serious and chose to support you all unconditionally. I think it would be great if you rejoined, that way I could get into some scholo/HU/UBRS/BRS runs again with regularity. I don't know for sure if I would go back or not though, right now it just doesn't feel right for me.

As far as end game content goes, I just don't think it will work for me. My life is hectic and unpredictable enough that I am not comfortable signing up for and organized event as I am guaranteed to be 50/50 as to whether or not I can make the time. If there was ever an open slot and I was on and invited, I would probably go, but as far as signing up, prolly not.

[pogozorro]

KB always takes a harsh tone in his Must Reads, but I can't say that I have actually witnessed him being unreasonable over interferences between gaming and RL issues.

Except one of the "reasons" I was kicked was I "sat down and didn't participate in MC" when in fact it was a server side bug. The situation was not investigated nor was I ever given an apology over that either, despite being labled a malingerer (my word, not their's :D).

[LogRoller]

Something to keep in mind is that if we were really interested, we can maintain "casual hardcoreness" through PvP participation. JR, pogo, and I got in Arathi Basin twice last night, and it was pretty decent fun. I imagine that with some organization and reliable access, it is a good way to go for group casual gaming with a point to it. Then every once in a while, we can run instances too.

The times I usually have the very best time is when we make up some objective and try to achieve it, like holding the STV zepplin. Sometimes I laugh till tears are streaming down my face. That's why I play. Good gear keeps that experience comfortably competitive, but it is a means to an end.

[pogozorro]

One aspect of that, Log, is the loot available through the Battlegrounds. Yes, it takes awhile, but if you are going to do it anyway, you can reap rewards from it as well.

Note, there are separate rewards for faction with battleground sponsors versus PVP rank.

[Andri]

Budly, it's all good. I think we are at a point where everybody just has to decide what group of people they need to band up with to get their fun out of the game. You are right that endgame instances are time consuming and not easily integrated with RL responsibilities. I think, your best bet would be to stay with the Martians. With so many of our long-missed friends back (for now :( ), you can run the high level instances as guild events. Most can be done with 7 or even fewer people these days (except UBRS, I suppose). I don't think anyone in Kingdom has us currently on their friends list, but if I manage to get back in, I will of course. If we keep the martian channel, I can also still talk to you all even if I'm on a different vent.

And finally: there are a lot of times when there are no endgame instances going on and everybody is off doing other stuff. So if you Martians happen to need a priest... ;) My alts, including Brunhild, will also stay with you as I see no good reason to move them anywhere else... which means, I can still hang out with you and nobody can fault me for it. :bg:

[Andri]

Except one of the "reasons" I was kicked was I "sat down and didn't participate in MC" when in fact it was a server side bug. The situation was not investigated nor was I ever given an apology over that either, despite being labled a malingerer (my word, not their's :D).

Pogo, I know. But we also know that it was Kaymus who kicked you in an act of petty revenge. As Loggy said, I was working on it when he stepped into the lime light with his... um... mildly inflammatory :yay: post.

[Andri]

Ned, when are you finally stepping in to delete this thread? :mad:









:bg:

[jackrabbit]

I'm probably more likely to get good gear from Battlegrounds than from Molten Core as I can get into Battlegrounds. I actually think the wait is shorter than the one involved with getting 40 people to Black Rock Mountain. ;)

I enjoyed Arathi Basin last night as there was no lack for killing and I was doing pretty well as a hunter as far as killing was concerned. However, I don't care for the pace of the gameplay when you wait 30 minutes to get into a game that only lasts 10 or 15. I suppose the other BGs are much the same in wait vs. gameplay, and it's something that must be faced as an alliance in BG queue.

However, it was something new and I enjoyed playing with Pogo and Log on vent, knowing that they had my back (and I theirs, for the occasional Aimed Shot crit to take out the warrior riding down on them). The gameplay was frantic and poorly organized, but I also had little idea what I needed to do besides drop traps and shoot at people. We managed about 3 games (was it 3, or just 2) in a bit over an hour, and while I told Pogo I didn't much like it, I've been thinking about it most of the day...

I'd like to get my warrior to 60 where I can chew apart the cloths instead of standing at the fringe picking off warriors that are busy killing someone else. I'd also like to try out the other BGs.

I miss Nord and BoX, though.

[Paladin]

Battlegrounds are also better if you have healing or AoE/ranged attacks. As a warrior, I'm pretty useless. I'm usually dead from ranged spells before I can engage in hand to hand.

[Budly]

I miss Rogue Squadron.