Warhammer Online to experience shrinkage on November 13, 2008

[Creole Ned]

Because November 13th is the official release date for Wrath of the Lich King (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/splash-wrathdate.htm).

[jackrabbit]

Mixed feelings. I want WotLK to come out, but from what I'm hearing in regards to the beta, and all the sweeping changes Blizzard makes each build, most complete rebuilds of previous mechanics, I wonder if the game will actually be ready.

Additionally, which Martians still intend to buy it?

[Circuit]

Same handful that are currently active, I'd imagine, but I can only speak for myself. You're on a different server than those of us that are playing, anyway. Plus, <snarky remark about JR in regards to grouping in WoW>.

[Creole Ned]

I will buy and play WotLK and see the new lands and enjoy that. No more purple, please. I got enough of that in Netherstorm, thanks!

[Falhawk]

no, its in iceland so the purple is being replaced by white and blue

[Creole Ned]

That'll do.

[Kermit]

I've been told that brown is the new purple. You may want to pick up a copy of D&DO in your local bargain bin.

The way things are going in my life right now I think I'll do my usual. Get into a game way to late and miss out on all the fun.

Life has just been busy lately. The load is lightening up at work, but I have other projects and family obligations that have me moving until typically 8-9 at night. By the time I watch a TV show or catch up on Season 3 of Battlestar Galactica I've fallen asleep in my easy-chair.

Point is, if I get back into WoW, it will be either because a few of my friends that live near me have gotten back into it (and they all hate PvP) or it will be the end of January when it's too cold out to do anything and football season is over.

Oh, and if you pay more than pocket lint for D&DO, you've gotten ripped off.

[Creole Ned]

* sniffs Kermit for the possibility of ham *

[jackrabbit]

So where can I preorder the CE and be sure it'll arrive on the day of release?

[Creole Ned]

In an alternate universe, I imagine. That's the main reason I never pre-order.

But there may be a local shop that is reliable. Try calling a few, perhaps. They'll probably lie and ask you to pre-order something completely unrelated, but what the heck.

[FoeKilla]

I most certainly will be getting the expansion, but I'll be underway when it's released.

I will return just before Christmas and logon to find that many of you have cancelled already.

I guess that means my boat will return to find the ship has sailed.

Also, I'll be staying on Arthas. I enjoy the PVP server lifestyle. Paranioa excites me.

[Circuit]

Ned, maybe things typically work out different up there in Canadia, but the whole not pre-ordering thing hasn't worked out so well for you for the past several games you've bought. :P

JR, I pre-ordered the CE on Gamestop's website this morning. It's the only place I've seen so far that even has it listed.

[Paladin]

Amazon has started offering same-day delivery of certain video game titles. I believe WotLK is one of them. I'll probably preorder at Gamestop since they have one close to where I work, just to be sure. That's only 8 days before Left4Dead hits, though, so how much time I put into the expansion is big-assed guess.

As for which server I'll be on, I haven't decided that either. On one hand, I have Pokeypokey at 70 already and will probably have a 70 druid on Arthas by then. On the other, I may have a 70 on Moonrunner, and I'll probably roll my Death Knight on Moonrunner as well. I have to say, so far, PvE is a far superior leveling experience. If Burning Crusade was any indication, the new high-level zones will be seriously un-fun on the PvP servers at launch.

[Creole Ned]

I should mention that I'll continue to play on Moonrunner.

I'll continue to play on Moonrunner.

Thank you.

[jackrabbit]

I can't tell you how much I agree that PvP servers suck. I wish Blizzard had held to their original selling point, and the print on the back of the box and implemented an honor system, and not some lame points system.

Sadly, I have more than three real-life months invested in the four 70s + on Arthas. If I could turn my back on that investment, it would be just as easy to quit WoW and never look back. If I could move one character, it would be my rogue, but I'm sure any of my other classes would be in more demand. I'll stay on Arthas despite that I hate PvP. I don't see that I have a cost-free choice.

[Circuit]

I would gladly help fund your move of all four if it meant having more people to group with.

[Kermit]

With JR it's not about the money, it's about the principle of the thing.

I'm the same way. It's not that I can't afford $20, it's that I refuse to. It shouldn't cost more than $1. I wonder what the best price point is for Blizzard to make money. People would be jumping servers much more often if the price were reduced. Say some random number like... the cost of a grilled stuffed burrito combo meal at Taco Bell.

If you're worried about stability, place a freeze on character transfers for a certain length of time. Like once a character moves, they are stuck on that server for 90 days.

[Circuit]

Yeah, I've had the discussion of why it "should" cost a certain amount for a server transfer far too many times to do it again here. Thanks for voicing your opinion, though.

[Kermit]

Oh don't get me wrong, I believe there should be "a" charge, and we certainly don't need to debate the exact price here and now. I just personally believe that $20/character/change is a little stiff for a game that I pay monthly for the privilege to continue playing.

The gist of my post was the first sentence. It's not the money, it's the principle.

[jackrabbit]

Patton and I discussed this at length yesterday. In the end it boiled down to this:


We'd both pay to move one character to a PvE server.
It's frustrating to decide which, since we've invested so much time in other characters.
If we were to want class X on the PvE server, do we pay again, or start over?
If we start over, why not just sell the main account and start ALL over?
If starting ALL over, why not just quit the game with a clean break?


So it's circular logic, but I guess I'd rather quit WoW altogether and get something back for my investment than pay to play the way I had thought I had signed up to play three years ago.

I'm also guessing that after WotLK endgame, I'll retire from WoW (I hope?), so there's no sense in dropping $80 when I'm foreseeably a year away from retiring. I should have spent it before TBC.

[Creole Ned]

I think the price of CoH's transfer service is about right -- $10. But WoW is not the most expensive one out there, actually.

I'll pay to help someone move a character or two over if they are financially constrained. Like Circuit, I'd like more people to group with. Moonrunner has been a decent experience for me so far and we are close to having enough for full (five-man) groups now.

But if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I won't lose sleep either way.

It would be fun to run the upcoming five-man dungeon thingers with friends, though.

[jackrabbit]

Therein lies the rub, as I like to say.

The new dungeons are all 10 or 25 man instances. They were trying to get away from the 40-man instances and still allow "casuals" to run them.

Being that, even in our best attended instances in TBC, we could only reliably scrounge 8 or 9, I don't see being able to even run the 10-man instances unless we abandon our friendly groups for casual raiding groups, or decide that endgame instances aren't what we want to do (I am a loot whore. That concept does not compute). Additionally, the 10 man instances in TBC were difficult and required that people learn the strats or listen to the raid leader, pay attention, and perform to a certain level of reliability. Some even had gear restrictions that wouldn't keep people out, but would keep them from being successful.

If I moved, it would be under the precept that I'd be raiding 10-mans. This is the same set of rules that has made me an unpopular Martian.

[Creole Ned]

Five or 10, I'm fine with either. I was just setting my sights for something more modest. I think we could swing 10 mans, though. There may be some logistical challenges, but that's just part of the deal.

[Circuit]

Therein lies the rub, as I like to say.

The new dungeons are all 10 or 25 man instances. They were trying to get away from the 40-man instances and still allow "casuals" to run them.

Being that, even in our best attended instances in TBC, we could only reliably scrounge 8 or 9, I don't see being able to even run the 10-man instances unless we abandon our friendly groups for casual raiding groups, or decide that endgame instances aren't what we want to do (I am a loot whore. That concept does not compute). Additionally, the 10 man instances in TBC were difficult and required that people learn the strats or listen to the raid leader, pay attention, and perform to a certain level of reliability. Some even had gear restrictions that wouldn't keep people out, but would keep them from being successful.

If I moved, it would be under the precept that I'd be raiding 10-mans. This is the same set of rules that has made me an unpopular Martian.

Huh? How has any of that made you an "unpopular Martian"? And how is it any different than when the NOVA group split off to do their own thing? It was the same people even if they got new forums and renamed the guild. Nothing accomplished there was anything that couldn't have been accomplished here. I would've played with you guys if I didn't hate my Gnome so much. :P

And since they've now opened up transfers to PvP servers, I might be willing to move one of my 70s if I knew any of the shit both the MC and ex-MC people have gone through wasn't going to happen again. Just from my lurking in the HCA forums, it would appear that nothing has really changed. Not faulting anyone, it just doesn't seem like we're cut out for any sort of steady grouping above the casual level.

[Patton]

It's hard to say what the 10 man content will be like in WotLK. Based on the idea that every 25-man raid instance will have a 10-man version, there will likely be a progression, where you need the gear from instance x to succeed in instance y, and so on, with the difficulty increasing.

Personally, I'd like to see it the way it was at the end of the original game, where all of the instances were 10-mannable, and none of the required a high level of gear to do. I remember running Drakkisath with all of you and having a blasty blast.

And Scholomance. Motherfucking Scholomance. :(

Huh? How has any of that made you an "unpopular Martian"? And how is it any different than when the NOVA group split off to do their own thing? It was the same people even if they got new forums and renamed the guild. Nothing accomplished there was anything that couldn't have been accomplished here. I would've played with you guys if I didn't hate my Gnome so much. :P

And since they've now opened up transfers to PvP servers, I might be willing to move one of my 70s if I knew any of the shit both the MC and ex-MC people have gone through wasn't going to happen again. Just from my lurking in the HCA forums, it would appear that nothing has really changed. Not faulting anyone, it just doesn't seem like we're cut out for any sort of steady grouping above the casual level.

I'll try not to take this personally (I know that isn't your intent,) and I won't defend it as such. But I will say that the level that we performed at in Karazhan would never have been possible in MC, based solely on playstyles. Karazhan was like... hardcore raiding lite, with less people. That doesn't mean HCA was/is better than MC, just slightly different goals for the content. This is why JR says it makes him an "unpopular Martian." I'm sure you guys like him more than you like me, but the same reason, amplified.

The drama certainly didn't change or go away though, did it? :)

[Creole Ned]

I don't have a problem playing with anyone, including that loot-obsessed jerk, jackrabbit.

Patton, I've always found you pretty easy-going when I've played alongside you. You can sometimes be a bit animated on the forum, as is the case with many of us. :o

[Falhawk]

sry I won't let you guys leave warhammer

[Circuit]

I'll try not to take this personally (I know that isn't your intent,) and I won't defend it as such. But I will say that the level that we performed at in Karazhan would never have been possible in MC, based solely on playstyles. Karazhan was like... hardcore raiding lite, with less people. That doesn't mean HCA was/is better than MC, just slightly different goals for the content. This is why JR says it makes him an "unpopular Martian." I'm sure you guys like him more than you like me, but the same reason, amplified.

The drama certainly didn't change or go away though, did it? :)

But again, it's the same people. You guys just had different forums. Everything you did in Karazhan could've happened if you were all still active around here. You brought in some of your TW friends to help, but again, that could've happened here too. I would've loved to join in with you all, but the whole Thing™ happened and I got caught yet again in the middle of a stupid quarrel between groups of people I enjoyed being around. By the time I felt comfortable enough to join the HCA forums, you guys were already way past where I was in the game.

While it's true a lot of the MC people have way different goals in WoW than you guys do, that doesn't mean they're opposed in any way to you having those goals. None of it makes anyone an "unpopular Martian". Hell, I've spent far more hours online with Ned than I have anyone in the world, yet our WoW playstyles are quite different. Even so, we still enjoy playing it together. At least I think we do. Maybe. :wavey:

[jackrabbit]

sry I won't let you guys leave warhammer

... says the jerk who called in "sick" the day of the Warhammer head start.

>:(

I got caught yet again in the middle of a stupid quarrel between groups of people I enjoyed
You should have done like me and verbally abused everyone and then just defected to the side with more players.

[Patton]

yeah, what a dick

jerkhawk

change his title, ned

[Falhawk]

actually I've had a really shitty day.

[Creole Ned]

oh...don't look at your new title, then!

[Tai]

actually I've had a really shitty day.

spawn camped?


PS. *comfort*

[Falhawk]

there is no spawn camping in warhammer


but no

[Kermit]

I will pay to transfer one character under the following impossible to meet conditions:
#1. Someone more important than me picks which character
#2. There is room for me in whatever is being run. I don't care. I run anything but Gnomer. 90% of the time I got to group with "ye olde group of pals" to run a dungeon, the main run of the night was full. I would literally miss runs by just minutes.
#3. I need to level whichever character is moved and fast.
#4. Maximum dramas.

[Creole Ned]

I will pay to transfer one character under the following impossible to meet conditions:
#1. Someone more important than me picks which character
#2. There is room for me in whatever is being run. I don't care. I run anything but Gnomer. 90% of the time I got to group with "ye olde group of pals" to run a dungeon, the main run of the night was full. I would literally miss runs by just minutes.
#3. I need to level whichever character is moved and fast.
#4. Maximum dramas.

1. I'm pretty sure jackrabbit has better pants, so that automatically makes him more important. He also may know a thing or two about the game, so he could pick.
2. I'll be DEEPS which is easily swappable with anything else. If there's no room, I can bow out of a run and dance in my underwear in IF instead, as is the custom.
3. Give your account info to some 11 year old kid in Shanghai, you'll have a 70 in no time. Or note that XP for level 60-70 is being reduced in the next patch so everyone can go kick Arthas (the undead guy, not the server) in his frozen nuts ASAP.
4. This is inevitable no matter what else happens.

[Kermit]

The major point is #2. I didn't know the game at all when I played my paladin. I soloed my priest almost exclusively. I'm an expert at about 2% of the game. I wanted to see if I could do it and now I know I can.

But now I'm done soloing. It's the only true demand I will make (besides Gnomer). I will only play WoW if I can group with friends. <-- note the period. <-- and that one too

[Creole Ned]

That's fine by me. I greatly prefer groups to soloing, myself. I usually only solo to try something different or if I'm engaged in an exciting activity such as gathering and harvesting.

[Paladin]

That's why I made some new characters on Moonrunner. It's where MC people are active. I'm hoping some folks will come back and play on Arthas when the expansion comes out, but I figure most of my grouping will be on Moonrunner. I just want to see some of the high level instance content, even if it means taking 5 70's through some of the level 60 10-man instances. I'm not in it for loot and gear (although I won't turn down stuff that drops I can use), I just want to see some of this stuff because everyone had moved on to trying to raid by the time I got to 60 and 70.

[Budly]

I think foe summed it up best with the paranoia factor, I just can't get into pve servering :(

Now, having said that, what kind of classes are you lacking?

[Postal]

:) It was good to see you on Budly. Our group right now is a Warrior, Paladin, Mage and Warlock. We are about 25 now. As you saw we also play so lower levels and some peopel have 70s.

[Tick]

Lunatick is an officer in a raiding guild that's starting T5 content on Arthas (and has been an officer for...3 months? Something like that). If anyone wants to raid in BC or WotLK, lemme know. If the guild falls apart for some reason, I'd probably move to Moonrunner to play with youse guys (I still hate world pvp and I've on more than one occassion said that the only thing keeping me on Arthas is Authority, my guild). I miss playing with many of you, but I've decided that I want to do endgame content and this is getting me a chance to do that. It helps that I got really lucky and found a guild with really cool leadership that was just starting to move into raiding past Kara, so I didn't have to play too much catchup.

(If you're interested, we do Kara Wed (I run this one, we usually need to pug a tank..JR, Circ, I'm looking at you guys) and Sat, ZA on Friday (which work keeps me from doing every week, which sucks), and Gruul/Mag on Thursday...Thursdays may be moving to SSC, TK, or maybe even Hyjal in the near future, tho). We don't have gear requirements for Kara, so if you want to see some endgame content, drop me a line ingame.

[Circuit]

I'm pretty certain Slappy's gear isn't nearly good enough to run Kara as a tank. :)

[jackrabbit]

I'll probably come back a week or so before WotLK ships, but I'm not really planning to raid TBC instances. However, I do plan to raid WotLK as hard as I can, so I'd be very interested in seeing if you need rogues.

I don't plan to play my warrior as main, and am considering moving my 70 paladin to Moonrunner. It's all up in the air until the release is closer.

[Budly]

In retrospect I may be interested in moving my 67 shammy to moonrunner.

[Budly]

Actually, I may move porkins over since we have a plethora of warriors on arthas and I haven't got a prayer of tanking anything mostly cause I suck.

[Kermit]

If JR moves his Pali, then I'd better pick my Priest.

It would require a bit more power leveling than the Pali, and this is assuming I actually do come back.

[Creole Ned]

What level is your priest?

[jackrabbit]

Don't pick based on me. As I may have stated in here, my focus will be on my Rogue, and everything else will be secondary.

[Kermit]

But how is Moonrunner on Priests? I can respec to holy.

Tai talked me into it on IRC this afternoon, that bastard.

In the next week or so I think I'll come back and see how it goes for a month or so. If all is well, I'll stay, if I'm board or soloing all the time I'll cut and run.

[Creole Ned]

The highest level characters in Conundrum (Moonrunner guild) are:

- shaman
- paladin
- druid
- hunter

The 25ish characters include a mage, warrior, warlock and paladin, so we are priest-deficient.

[Circuit]

Also, I can spec to heal with either my Paladin or Shaman to fill any gaps. So if you're looking to move a character, move the one you want to play the most.

[Postal]

If Moonrunner picks up I may move a char over though the 25$ gets me too. I hope to get my level 25 Paladin there up to 60-70 before the expansion instead.

[Kermit]

So if you're looking to move a character, move the one you want to play the most.

It's a photo finish, but I actually like playing the priest a little more.

I'll need general tips about healing in group with a priest as we go. Pretty much any advise that doesn't end in "and get it right next time you stupid prick".

[Circuit]

I haven't played a Priest further than level 12 or so, which means I can't really help. However, I've healed in Outland instances with both my Shaman and Paladin and while they both have different tricks/strengths/weaknesses, the principles are basically the same. Of course, I'm probably over-simplifying, but if you can get good at healing you can likely do it with any healing class.

[Tai]

Just remember to use the hotkeys instead of the mouse clicker and you'll do fine. It's just boring whack-a-mole in a lot of cases.

[Patton]

Just remember to use the hotkeys instead of the mouse clicker and you'll do fine. It's just boring whack-a-mole in a lot of cases.


:lol:

[Kermit]

I'll have to see what's out there for healer mods too. Any recommendations?

[Circuit]

I haven't used any, but I always hear people talk about Healbot. (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/details/3802/)

[Postal]

I used a few heal mods for a bit and never liked any of them. There was one that i don't think is around any more that put small button with the heal spells next to each person which was OK. The best seemed to be to put the heals on keys near my fingers and click the persons portrait and then hit the key.

[Creole Ned]

I bought a second tab for the guild bank tonight so feel free to use it for storing and such.

BTW, if you are unsure about taking something from the bank, just ask first. Lower level stuff and bags are always fine (I recycle bags from my lowbies).

[Circuit]

Excellent. Now we can have a bank tab dedicated completely to netherweave! Some of it.

Oh, and don't hesitate to take as many of the bags as you want. I don't think we're going to run out of cloth any time soon. I can make the 18 slot ones as soon as I get around to gathering up the materials from the stupid spiders. Also, if you take a bag, don't worry about replacing it with your little ones. Either keep them for temporary bank bags or vendor them because there's no reason everyone can't outfit their lowbies with 16 slot bags.

[Kermit]

Mmmmm 16 slot goodness.

I started up a new character last night. Human Mage. Per my usual laziness in crafting, I took skinning and herbalism. I'm just going to sell everything I find, so if some one's looking for some leather or flowers, let me know and I'll drop them in the bank.

When everyone catches up to the mid 40's, if we're grouping well I'll transfer Reynia over for some high level healing. She's 56 now so there's no reason why I can't get her up to the mid 60's in time to keep up with everyone else.

[Circuit]

Well, keep in mind at the moment "everyone else" with high level characters is just me and Ned. Pal, Postal, Ned and I all have characters in the mid-20s and I reckon it'll be fairly easy to get them at least to Outland before the expansion hits. If people continue playing on a regular basis, I don't see any reason we can't hit 70 in the next two months.

[Kermit]

Budly joined up last night too.

I'm just saying I know I'm traditionally a little slower than everyone else leveling. If I putz around right now with my new Mage with everyone else, I'll have her to solo whenever I can't group. Then I can take out the 56 Priest whenever people hit the mid 40's and I should be able to keep up stride for stride well into the 60s. Most people will probably still beat me to 70, but at least I'll be ready.

[Circuit]

Yay, people are playing! :)

[Budly]

Yay, I have been playing all along, just not with you :o

[Budly]

Oh, and look up the seasonal stuff, I want to hunt that boss.

[Circuit]

Yay, I have been playing all along, just not with you :o

:bawl:

[Q]

Kerm, if you want to talk Priest I can try to help out. I got a priest up to 62 and did a decent job with group healing I think.

I'm debating if I want to spend $25 to transfer a character. I have a 68 mage, 62 priest, and 60 warrior on Arthas.

[Budly]

*cough*crowd control*cough*
*cough*mage table*cough*

[Q]

I think Budly is trying to hint at something...

[Tai]

I have something like 4 kinds of Fear....

[Circuit]

Fear is very rarely useful in instances for crowd control. Your succubus' seduction, however, comes in handy more often.

[Creole Ned]

What about my natural charm and poise?

[Creole Ned]

Also, it would be nice if Blizzard at least added a kind of fear effect that makes enemies cower in place instead of running around aggroing everything in sight. In fact, that gives me an idea...

[Circuit]

Yeah, I much prefer CoH's version of fear. Of course, aggro in general really isn't a huge issue there anyway.