Collaborating with other Guilds

[Avalon616]

I went on a mostly-successful ZG run with a guild called Knights of Legends this evening. One of the heads of the guild asked me if MC was interested in collaborating to do big runs like Molten Core, ZG, AQ 20, etc. They are often short 5 to 10 sixty's, so were wondering if we were interested in joining up. I also have talked to someone from the guild Phoenix Flame, and they were interested in a similar sort of collaboration.

Obviously as the newbie of the group, I don't know what groups MCers have worked with in the past, or if there is already some standing arrangement with larger guilds. I know that many people aren't interested in trying to get any of the elite gear because of awesome greens coming out in the expansion, but I hoped there might be some people who wans to try doing some of the bigger raids. I certainly prefer doing instances with you guys over random PUGs, but there's no chance we could all get together for a 20-man or 40 man.

So if anyone is interested in doing some more of the endgame type instances and working with other guild, or have advice on which guild NOT to work with, please let me know.

[mrspogo]

I do not think people will mind grouping if they want to raid. However, merging guilds has proven to be a bad thing, too much unnecessary drama. Our guild is composed of all friends and family. (Hence, why we are hesitant on allowing randoms to join our group.) We are mostly a very close group, and are here not for the game but for each other's company. Nevertheless, I am merely one wee voice. See how the guys feel, because truly this is their guild.

[Tai]

Exactly what MrsPogo said. :) Don't mind grouping when/ if they need a drunken healer, but no way we're merging guilds again :)

[Budly]

I don't think that she meant merging but just simply being on another guilds A list for raiding. Melissa, if you liked raiding with KoL you should really sweet talk inka into an ashen run. In the time that it took for you guys to run to the point that I joined and the time it took to do the wipes they ran the whole instance. I have also run with the group that pogo was running with and while they are efficient be prepared to be ridiculed if you don't do everything in the cookiecutter fashion that they expect you to know. There are lots of groups out there and many raiding guilds often have several slots open so never be afraid to jump in and expand your network.
For me personally, KoL is a very slow raiding guild. They are nice enough peeps but they like to have lots of downtime. I raided with them a few weeks ago and it was exactly the same. To be honest, if I had realized that you were with them last night I probably wouldn't have joined. After giving up on the spider boss though we did go down the bat. :)

[pogozorro]

Having Martians fill in on runs is one thing. That is entirely up to the individual. As Tai and Heather said though, anything beyond a casual association is going to be poopooed.

I think you'll find a few people want to raid, but on the whole, there aren't too many who want to go on a regular basis.

Also, with the expansion coming out in less than two months, unless you have some wonder-Naxxramas guild that needs poorly-geared fill-ins, anything you get now will literally be replaced by greens and blues when you go to the first area in the Outlands.

[jackrabbit]

I really have limited interest in playing with anyone besides Martians. All other attempts have been the Hindenburg. People that want to, should. There's no rule that they can't, but in my experience, motivation to do so is usually scarce.

[Fool]

I'm interested in raids, but I honestly can't stand spending 3+ hours of standing around like that KoL group last night. I need better gear and it seems impossible to get any with the shitty PUG groups.

[Andri]

Melissa, if you want to do MC, I'd recommend the Balance PUG. You can just go to their guild website and sign up. The reasons why I would pick them over any other guild that does MC PUGs are that they are efficient and get the instance cleared, including RAG (which is not true for all PUGs), and they don't have any strange loot rules. (I don't remember all the details, but I think it was random 100 for gear, ore, nexus crystals, core leather etc. plus a 1 epic per person limit -- unless you are the only person who still needs a particular set piece. Then they give it to whoever needs it, even if you already won an epic.) I didn't care much for their vent talk, but that is probably mostly because I don't really know anyone in that guild and didn't care about their guild business. I can't recall encountering anybody who was seriously annoying; and I cannot recall any drama (loot or other) either. They are also very laid back about specs -- You come as you come -- and can live with people making mistakes/not having done MC a million times and knowing all the strats by heart. They raid MC Fridays at 7 PM and often do Ony afterwards. If you want to talk to somebody before signing up, you can try Gocl. I know, his name is stupid, but he's the raid leader and generally nice enough. (Sold me the +healing to gloves enchant for only 2 g.)

One of my alts was for a while in Phoenix Flame and I liked them. They are actually the guild that reminded me most of TMC in that they are also a friends and family guild. They tried to grow to where they could at least do ZG/AQ20 on their own (which is how I got in there), but I don't think they ever managed. I imagine that it is for similar reasons TMC stays small.

All of you are always welcome to join Ashen in instances if there are open spots. However, we don't do MC/Ony anymore, and the guild generally appears to be in a PvP frenzy at the moment. The ZG run that Budly mentioned was the first one we did in weeks, and I don't think we have done any since.

[Fool]

Could you perhaps tell us what their website is? :)

[Tai]

Could you perhaps tell us what their website is? :)

http://www.balance-guild.com/

:thumbup:

I saw the Eye of Shadow on the AH for 180 gold and was tempted, but realized BC will be out before I get the other eye through an Molten Core PUG :)

[Avalon616]

http://www.balance-guild.com/


Hmm, I don't see any mention on that site about PUG sign ups, but maybe I'm just blind or retarded. Or blindly retarded.

In any case, I've run with Phoenix Flame again since the first post. They're pretty fun to run with, but not nearly as good at taking down bosses as other guilds I've run with. I've done fairly well with PUGing so far, and am getting to know a bunch of different groups.

Andri- please shoot me an invite whenever your guild is doing an instance and needs a lock! :thumbup: I'm also going to be going on guild runs with Too Easy possibly in the near future, cause that's the guild Valdik moved to. I was gonna do MC with them the other night, but it was really late and I got sleepy.

[Tai]

Try joining their forums and posting in the Raid Sign-ups forum.

At a guess any way.

[Patton]

Valdik was a douchebag, Tai.

[Tai]

Valdik was a douchebag, Tai.

??? Why is this directed at me? I know a number of you didn't like him and bad mouthed him and were basically abrasive, and maybe he was back, but I never had any problems with him (or any other Martian). *shrug*

[Avalon616]

Valdik was a douchebag, Tai.

I'm the one who's going to be gaming with Valdik. I did not ask you whether you liked him or not, and frankly, I don't give a shit.

I really think the attitude of many Martians towards this guy was piss-poor, and have considered leaving this guild in disgust for other reasons as well. Obviously, I am unaware of much of this guild's back history with many members, but still, some of you guys are rude and abrasive to a point that's completely uncalled for, and do little to nothing to try to proactively help other players or make them feel included. It's not the majority of people, but still I have felt belittled and angered to the point where I've had to walk away from the computer, and I think that's just wrong.

Guys, you're generally all good people, from what I've seen. Lighten up, and stop being such gaming nazi's who are so overly friggin critical of anyone who doesn't play *your* way. I know many of you had criticism of the way Val played, but fucking let it go already.

/end offtopic rant

[Falhawk]

I think the only reason people were weird about valdik was because he never really did stuff with the guild (he was always in BGs when I saw him online)


I've also had plenty of people go out of their way to help me (to the point that I feel guilty about it)

so I dunno

[Q]

What Fal said. Personally, I never knew who brought him into the guild or why he was here. He never said a word in guild chat and never grouped with anyone.

I never really saw anyone be mean to him - it was always just the question "Why is Valdik in the guild?". Which, given the circumstances, was a perfectly valid question.

With that said, I have no idea where Patton's comment comes from.

[FoeKilla]

I was the one that outwardly didn't like Valdik. I am the one that set the current Motd. I am likely the one Jolissa is refering to.

That being said, it had nothing to do with the way he played. I didn't agree with him on ANYTHING about warlocks, but to each his own. He was having fun. His playstyle/build/gear choices did not detract from my fun in any way.

I didn't like him because he ridiculed MY playstyle/build/gear choices.
He would ask questions about my build/tactics/gear and then laugh or mock my asnwers. Fuck you buddy - you asked.

I'm very much a you go your way and do it your way and I'll go mine and do it my way, no hard feelings kinda guy. But I'm also a very opinionated fuck and once you get on my bad side it's hard to get off.

See ya later Valdik, don't let the door hit ya...

[Falhawk]

well I guess that's that

[Creole Ned]

Come on guys, we're supposed to have a few more months of peace before BC comes out. :P

In my time playing, I felt guild memberships were handed out a little too readily. I have always favored a benevolent dictatorship when it comes to these kinds of things, which is why I vette everyone before letting anyone join the Martian Cartel proper.

Perhaps tighter reins could be considered for guild membership going forward to prevent unnecessary friction or a "bad fit". I don't put the game ahead of people because games come and go. I would hope that most of us share the same view.

And I think it goes without saying that none of you should be acting like dicks in-game. If you want to be a dick, there's plenty of other groups that would be more than happy to have you. MC is not one of them.

[FoeKilla]

I think guild membership has worked well. In my entire time, I can only think of 2 people that didn't 'fit'. Valdik being one of them. And most didn't actually dislike him, they just didn't know him or who he was.

[Creole Ned]

I may have overstated it, then, as it's been a good while since I played. My point still stands, though, that we are less likely to see problems if memberships are handed out carefully. If they always have been, then I recommend we conduct a parade and make a beer garden to celebrate our good fortune.

[Tai]

...make a beer garden to celebrate our good fortune.

you have my vote.

[Q]

I may have overstated it, then, as it's been a good while since I played. My point still stands, though, that we are less likely to see problems if memberships are handed out carefully. If they always have been, then I recommend we conduct a parade and make a beer garden to celebrate our good fortune.
I think all along we've only invited people who are friends of existing members, which has worked well. I don't think you can be any more selective than that without hurting people's feelings. We've never had more than 15 or so people on at once so it's not like the guild is huge.

[Patton]

I didn't like him because he was a douchebag.

My comment comes from him being a douchebag, and not fitting in at all.

I never even saw his character. He was always just this disembodied bit of text chat. For all the guild runs, for all the guild help that goes on, that I've been given, that I've given, I never, not once, in the many absurd hours that I've played, seen his character.

Does this make him a douchebag automatically? Oh certainly not. Perhaps he grouped with people when I wasn't around.

He didn't though. So when he was asking for the pattern for some Warlock robe, when there were 3 or 4 other Warlocks who DID contribute to the guild, DID attend guild runs, DID help other members - well, yeah, I start to think of him as a douchebag.

So sue me.

I'm the one who's going to be gaming with Valdik. I did not ask you whether you liked him or not, and frankly, I don't give a shit.

I really think the attitude of many Martians towards this guy was piss-poor, and have considered leaving this guild in disgust for other reasons as well. Obviously, I am unaware of much of this guild's back history with many members, but still, some of you guys are rude and abrasive to a point that's completely uncalled for, and do little to nothing to try to proactively help other players or make them feel included. It's not the majority of people, but still I have felt belittled and angered to the point where I've had to walk away from the computer, and I think that's just wrong.

Guys, you're generally all good people, from what I've seen. Lighten up, and stop being such gaming nazi's who are so overly friggin critical of anyone who doesn't play *your* way. I know many of you had criticism of the way Val played, but fucking let it go already.

/end offtopic rant

Even if this wasn't directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

Pogo and I are abrasive people, and I'm one of those people who will say stuff to your face instead of dealing with it later. If it felt like I was belittling you, it is because I was belittling you. It's not because I think I'm better than you, or that I hate you, or any of those reasons. I've liked grouping with you and taking you through instances for the first time. It was fun to hear you commenting on the stuff you were seeing in BRS and such. But when you screwed up, I let you know about it for 3 or 4 weeks afterwards. I do this with everyone. It's just that when I rib JR about what he's doing in the same way that I rib you about what you're doing, JR has thicker skin and can take it better. Like I said, it's not because I hate you, that's just how I am. Don't take it personally. <3

Believe me, I can be much meaner.

[Falhawk]

if people have problems directly with others they need to let the parties involved know so that this stuff doesn't boil under the surface

ya dig?

[Kermit]

I think it speaks to the kindness of this group that some dude who knew no one in real life, never grouped with anyone, (allegedly) acted like a dick to a few, and was vetted by nobody (as far as anyone can remember) was allowed to remain in the guild for as long as he/she was.

I never interacted with the person known as Valdik and have no useful opinion on that specific sup-topic.

On the subtopic of new members in general, I think the current system is working well enough for now. If we get any bigger, Pogo may have to declare "officers" who would have to vet new members, but I don't think that would be necessary unless we begin to have problems.

[Falhawk]

i do hope we get a bit bigger (to be able to run 20 man raids)

but I agree that if we get larger we'll want to maybe have more input on new members etc

[Patton]

if people have problems directly with others they need to let the parties involved know so that this stuff doesn't boil under the surface

ya dig?

I have a problem with you Falhawk.

You're too nice and your taste in music is exquisite.

I hope you die.

Ya dig?

[Shadowrat]

I don't know much about douchebags. I think alot of other guilds have tons of them. I hear it's because they have a wicked pvp talent spec.

[pogozorro]

Yay! Drama NOT involving me! Huzzah!

Valdik was a friend of Keith. He played with us a very long time ago (Valdik) and disappeared without as much as a thank you or what not. Given that this grouping is largely made up of people so closely connected through years of acquaintances or through living nearby, someone who comes in and out like that will place themselves apart from the group quickly.

Valdik, upon returning, started the wondrous PVP grind. While it can be done in a group, he chose to play for 30+ hours a week in BGs and not doing anything with the guild, be it PVPing with them; helping/getting helped with low-level characters, or even just general civil discourse. What openly set me against him was when he would take advantage of peoples' kindnesses and try to scoop items when people would offer it up to the guild. Further, any interrogatories directed in at his person requesting his rationale for continuance with the Martian Cartel were met with silence.

Hence, his silence was met with an overall ban on speaking in the guild chat until he whined about it when he couldn't try to chime in about Foe. Granted, I tend to give answers to nearly anything in WoW, but at least I am right a majority of the time. His answers were simply mindless.

I refused to allow him to be kicked, though, due to any egregious harm committed. Nevertheless, I was surprised when he, again, up and left. Were we any better off with him in the guild? Not in the slightest. Are we any worse off without him? A bit, only in that Foe will now have to select another weak spirit to crush.

Guild membership has always been a "friends and family" approach. The only two people admitted outside this were Redtail (Inka's little...thing) and that one French Canadian paladin whose name escapes me currently. Redtail was a genuinely nice kid (he was 17 or 18) but got banned when he was caught using an AFK bot in a battleground. He started another character on a new account, but decided to switch servers due to another quasi-former member of the Cartel. The French Canadian, while annoying as shit in a blender, helped with things as well. He contributed, he participated, and he was an overall positive force within the guild.

As such, as the benevolent dictator, I hereby decree that membership will continue as it has been in perpetuity, or until otherwise annulled. People aren't going to like each other, fine. However, I will start putting my foot down on chronic abusers of the charity of others, e.g. Valdik. Similarly, people are free to complain about the systems in place as much as they want, but keep in mind the system will not yield to your will. There are many others with much stronger personalities who will continue to play with their friends and enjoy the game as they see fit.

Finally, Melissa, calm down a bit, please. Most of the people in the guild have been playing this game for, literally, multiple years. Helping people is one of the things I think we do best, but charity begins at home and if you are so angered by people expecting a consistent level of playing, perhaps you should attempt to simply play better. We are allowed to be supposed "gaming Nazis" because 1) we know each and every one of us is capable of playing better than they start out as and 2) we aren’t the only people playing WoW. I’ve known some of these guys for six years or more, and even then, most of us like each other. There is choice involved in playing with people like Mr. Ancient Bone Bow, and frankly he is similar enough in temperament that I enjoy his company. Same with pretty much everyone else. Tai is a great guy, horrible at WoW, but I’ll still drag him along when the opportunity strikes.

If you are unhappy with someone, talk to them about it. Don’t throw a tantrum like people have in the past (myself included), but instead, actually say, “Hey, fuckface, your attitude is pissing my shit off.” Some people will bottle up their anger until it explodes. Some people will curse and spit and be done with whatever the problem is in five minutes. You appear to be the former. I happen to be the latter, along with several people. These styles of reaction can lead to issues, and frankly, most of us have been through that ringer enough, even in WoW, that most won’t want to even deal with it.

Enough of the bad stuff, on to happy land. Fal, we are on track for the 25 person raids with the possible need for a fill in or two. Not a big issue. Kerm, we have pseudo-officers in place should I be off playing another game or out of town for work. Heather, Foe, Q, and JR can literally do everything with the guild, sans changing guild titles and kicking my characters.

[jackrabbit]

Falhawk is NICE? I think you and I have met two different Falhawks.

Pogo declared officers a few weeks back. Come to think of it, that may be why Valdik left.

As far as the other stuff I will only say this:

Everyone remember that we're (mostly) all adults. Not everyone is going to get along with everyone else. For example, there's only three Martians that I really even like. Just do what you can to enjoy the ones you do like and avoid the ones you don't. There's no real need to get upset when you can step away and consider the grand scheme of things.

Wait, there's only two. (Hint: one is Dg3Nr8)

[Falhawk]

I have a problem with you Falhawk.

You're too nice and your taste in music is exquisite.

I hope you die.

Ya dig?

I'm not sure I like where this is going

[pogozorro]

I prefer to think of the officers as "packmules" rather than positions of authority. :D

[mrspogo]

1) Pogo, as always, way too verbose!
2) Foe a little disapointed in your first post, you only said fuck once.
3) Damn JR you actually like 2 people, I don't like anyone and I am married to someone in the guild. :p
4) Patton, as always you make me laugh.
5) Luci where is my damn butter chicken?

Now, to the subjuect. I can not say that I shed any tears of Val leaving, and come to think of it I don't give a shit what caused him to leave. I am sorry, but I can not count the times that JR and I or others asked if he would like to do an instance, he said 'sure', then he never showed his ass up. So, yes that is why I referred to him more as Dik.

I think, over all, we have a great guild! I have enjoyed playing with just about everyone. However, on the defense of the gentlemen that are "abrasive", learn to love them for it or try your damnedest to avoid them. The guys are the way they are, and I married the biggest asshole in the group. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Pogo, when it comes to dealing with this group it is best if you just say it, call them a fuckwad and move on. Do not get your balls wrapped around the axle. (lol, I heard that from one of you guys and have always wanted to use it. :jester:)

[Falhawk]

ok balls wrapped around the axel has me curled in a fetal position thanks.

[Fool]

I get the feeling the tired instance raiders will be back in full force with BC anyway. I got no problems doing PUGs till then.

[Kermit]

If we get any bigger, Pogo may have to declare "officers" who would have to vet new members, but I don't think that would be necessary unless we begin to have problems.

I know there are people who have editing powers, I just wanted to emphasise specifically to Pogo that I think the current system of membership is fine.

And JR is a fuckwad. (Unless I was the #2 person in the guild that you like. In that case Orion is a fuckwad)

[pogozorro]

I never made a big announcement about it, and you were as good a prompt as any.

[FoeKilla]

...there's only three Martians that I really even like...

Wait, there's only two. (Hint: one is Dg3Nr8)

I'm SOOOO curious!




edit: fuck fuck fuck - there are 2 fucks in my original post

[Avalon616]

Oh geez, I certainly didn't want this. Sorry for ranting guys, I've been in a pissy mood and the line about Valdik just caught me the wrong way. I actually don't bottle well when things piss me off, and tend to just rant, and then after I rant immediately stop caring. As for that situation, I realize there's a ton of backstory that I just don't know, being new, and perhaps the face he gives me is not the same he gives everyone else. (He talks to me often, offers me help, and items if need be.)

I think my major problem is sometimes I forget that you guys are a group that isn't really looking for new members. You're a bunch of crotchety old men who've been gaming since I was a whippersnapper. :bg: But I really like playing with everyone for the most part. Cept for Patton, cause he doesn't appreciate my fears.

Sorry for the snit, guys.

P.S. I love you JR, if you don't like me I'm gonna cry.

[Snake]

:eek: Lots of drama i see, hope to see everyone when BC comes out.

[Patton]

I get the feeling the tired instance raiders will be back in full force with BC anyway. I got no problems doing PUGs till then.

Yeah, I'll be back in full force. Possibly before it hits. Maybe I'll organize some warm-up instance runs in the weeks leading up to it. If attendance is outstanding, we'll do ZG or AQ20 or Onyxia. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing how your Mage does now that she's 60.

[Tai]

You're a bunch of crotchety old men who've been gaming since I was a whippersnapper

before you were born, thanks.

[Patton]

Oh yeah, sorry for blaming you Tai. For some reason I thought that the person who shall now be known as "douchebag" was your friend.

But I don't think Keith is a douchebag for inviting the douchebag.

I've really liked that word lately.

P.S. I love you JR, if you don't like me I'm gonna cry.

I think you misunderstood. If JR likes you, it's a bad thing.

[Q]

before you were born, thanks.
The scary part is that Tai isn't exaggerating.

[Fitty]

I want to be Officer of Guild Drama.

:wave: keith

[Tai]

The scary part is that Tai isn't exaggerating.

There's nothing scary about it! It's a normal progression of life :thumbup:

[pogozorro]

I want to be Officer of Guild Drama.



That would require you to play the game. :p

What do you want to do this weekend?

[Fitty]

See a movie?

[Snake]

:wavey: Troy :)

[pogozorro]

As in actually see a movie, or forget about it and say, 'Man, I MEANT to see a movie..." :D

Borat or Bond? We have something Saturday afternoon, but nothing big. We can work around it.

[Snake]

Go see both, Borat isn't that long.

[Fitty]

I will ask Mr. Dude and get back to you.

[Andri]

I want to be Officer of Guild Drama.

No way!!! If you introduce that title, I'll fight like a real bitch to get it. It's MINE MINE MINE!!! :mad: